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Deepi Sair, Nirmal Brar, Surinder Spera and 25 others like this.Sanjay Sanan utterance = ਬੋਲ-ਚਾਲ....????May 28 at 11:20am · Unlike · 1Dalvir Gill ummmmmmmmmmMay 28 at 11:21am · LikeArvinder Kaur '' heard melodies are sweet but those unheard are sweeter''.......KeatsMay 28 at 11:25am · Unlike · 3Sarbjot Singh Behl Dalvir..if you allow...rippling reflections....unnamed sounds sweeter thanthe utteranceMay 28 at 11:35am · Like · 1Dalvir Gill it shouldn't hurt though, i left 'reflections' thus for it's double meaning. didn't get the hang of it yet but i'm trying to get the idea behind multiple-interpretations. for too long i/we worked on making the "image" concrete/precise, and it still gets to me. There's no kigo, or even zoka, in it. but i'm trying Ma & Yugen in it. i know i've to write a score of them before i'll come even close to a real hokku/haiku.May 28 at 11:43am · LikeSarbjot Singh Behl well..I, for now, can't get over concretion ...otherwise the boundaries of genres would merge...and one might as well start writing normal poetry....and will three lines be a sufficient definition for this genre...but , i guess, for the time being, each one to one's own !May 28 at 11:53am · Like · 1Dalvir Gill that's what i was talking about when i mentioned "Norms". The way Master Wilson has refuted the western approach towards Haiku has convinced me. Basho's interactions with his disciples are worth our attention, of course he was going to keep 'Japanese Aesthetics' in mind, not the kigo, 'phrase-fragment', 'juxtaposition' etc. Everybody has a different answer to "What differentiates Hokku/Haiku from the "English Bastardization of the Genre" ?. The history of adaptation of Haiku into English needs to be understood thoroughly - how the Imagist Poets embraced it and their links with their contemporaries in Japan, and most importantly, how Haiku was imported back into the West, through that influence. It's not "Nature's descriptive poetry under some strict rules." The basic entry in the wikipaedia under "Japanese Aesthetics" is a helpful start.May 28 at 12:48pm · Like · 2( Cont. in next comment )
Dalvir Gill http://simplyhaiku.theartofhaiku.com/summer2010/rdw-defining-haiku.htmSummer 2010simplyhaiku.theartofhaiku.comHaiku, to paraphrase what the late, great classical guitarist Andre Segovia said...See MoreMay 28 at 1:11pm · Like · 1 · Remove PreviewSarbjot Singh Behl Excerpt from the article - by Robert.D.Wilson...suggested by you (thank you again...for reinforcing)" A genre is a genre, and all genres have their own point of origin. In various cultures, a genre can have sub-genres; just as in science, phylums have sub-phylums. In Jazz, a genre indigenous to Afro-American origin, sub-genres have developed such as modern jazz, Latino jazz, etc.; but they are parts of one genre as they share a common heritage, musicality, and tonal exploration.Dogs aren't cats, and haiku isn't free verse.Adaptation is good. Basho welcomed it. Shiki did also, but within reason, not trying to change haiku and tanka, but to revitalize it and make it relevant to the time he was living in.Adaptation and seeking freshness of voice is vital, but not if the adaptation is, in reality, a disguised term for literary surgery that alters a genre so dramatically that it no longer resembles the original.Buddha too ---he's opened his altar doors,cooling offmihotake mo / tobira o akete / suzumi kanaI whohear the drumsfrom Yoshiwaraand alone late at nightsort out haikuYoshiwara no / taiko kikoete / fukuru yo ni / hitori haiku o / bunri su ware waMasaoka ShikiTranslated by Burton Watson"May 28 at 1:19pm via mobile · Like · 1Sarbjot Singh Behl http://haikureality.webs.com/esejeng85.htmesejienghaikureality.webs.comRichard Gilbert: The Disjunctive Dragonfly: A Study of Disjunctive Method and Definitions in Contemporary English- language HaikuMay 28 at 1:22pm via mobile · LikeSarbjot Singh Behl haikureality.webs.com/esejeng85.htmMay 28 at 1:23pm via mobile · Like( cont. in the next comment )
Dalvir Gill Exactly, Robert calls it ( what we are doing along with so many other schools of thought ) "Bastardization of the Genre" ( His group is named "Back To Hokku" ) I have posted in the past and can do that again, all six essays by him, they are very important, one is called "To Kigo or not to Kigo." He has rejected works for the reasons "being merely descriptive," "Just juxtaposition". etc. - all those things we consider the demarcating lines from free verse. Hokku without, Zoka, Ma & Yugen is not acceptable near him. my this piece is a haiku but not a hokku, it's not based on any hidden force of nature, doesn't have the mystery, needed as a must. The essay above is a good starter into the mind of Robert D. Wilson. Here's a collection of Issa ( The Green Leaf & Frog Pond translations aren't considered too bad ), I didn't make a list to prove my point, it's just a random selection, see how many fit to our format and how many fall into the "free verse" section: http://thegreenleaf.co.uk/hp/issa/00haiku.htmThe Haiku of Issathegreenleaf.co.ukHaiga: Illustrated haiku, tanka and other short form poetryMay 28 at 1:34pm · Like · Remove PreviewDalvir Gill http://simplyhaiku.theartofhaiku.com/past-issues/simply-haiku-2011/spring-2011/features/reinventing-the-wheel.htmlStudy of Japanese Aesthetics: Part IIsimplyhaiku.theartofhaiku.comEver since we began, Simply Haiku has been an English language Japanese short fo...See MoreMay 28 at 1:40pm · Like · 1 · Remove PreviewDalvir Gill http://simplyhaiku.theartofhaiku.com/past-issues/simply-haiku-2011/summer-2011/features/to-kigo-or-not-to-kigo.htmlStudy of Japanese Aesthetics: Part IIIsimplyhaiku.theartofhaiku.comEver since we began, Simply Haiku has been an English language Japanese short fo...See MoreMay 28 at 1:41pm · Like · 1 · Remove PreviewDalvir Gill http://simplyhaiku.theartofhaiku.com/past-issues/simply-haiku-2011/autumnwinter-2011/features/is-haiku-dying.htmlStudy of Japanese Aesthetics: Part IVsimplyhaiku.theartofhaiku.comEver since we began, Simply Haiku has been an English language Japanese short fo...See MoreMay 28 at 1:41pm · Like · 1 · Remove PreviewDalvir Gill Even this is not just about personification, it's a great effort at defining Haiku while a brief look at the "Early History of ELH" : http://simplyhaiku.theartofhaiku.com/autumn2010/personification.htmindexengsimplyhaiku.theartofhaiku.comThe human spirit is not dead. It lives on in secret . . . It has come to believe...See MoreMay 28 at 1:45pm · Like · 1 · Remove Preview( cont in the next comment )
Dalvir Gill All these essays ( without the Interviews he conducted ) amount to a book of 300-350 pages. I'm not intend on finding excerpt to prove something but beg everyone to read them in their entirety.May 28 at 1:48pm · Like · 2Darbara Singh Kharaud ਪ੍ਰਤੀਬਿੰਬ-ਕਹੀਆਂ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਮਿੱਠੀਆਂਅਣਕਹੀਆਂ ਗੱਲਾਂMay 28 at 7:41pm · Unlike · 8Sarbjit Singh Dalvir Gill Baee , one day your sweetness will win. I am really proud to be your friend.May 29 at 5:56am · Unlike · 1Sarbjot Singh Behl @. Dalvir...thanks Bro, for sharing....May 29 at 8:14am via mobile · Unlike · 1Davinder Kaur waahMay 29 at 11:21am · Unlike · 1Dalvir Gill ਇੱਕ ਹੋਰ ਅਨੁਵਾਦ :ਧਿਆਨ -ਮੰਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਚੰਗਾਮੌਨMay 29 at 2:25pm · Like · 5Dalvir Gill Nature in haiku poetry is one of the least understood facets of the genreAmerican haiku is an impoverished subgenre of haiku. It is not a distinct genre. There cannot be two genres calling themselves haiku (a Japanese name for an American genre that claims to be distinctly different from haiku?) Either one is and the other isn’t. The following can be found on the Haiku Society of America website:WHAT IS HAIKU?“Haiku is a form of traditional Japanese poetry that involves a 17-syllable verse form comprised of three metric units of 5, 7, and 5 morae, which correspond to English syllables. In traditional Japanese methodology, the haiku is not only a poetic form of expression but also a manner of understanding the world. The brevity of haiku sometimes mistaken for simplicity, is meant to capture the world and existence in a single moment. It can be considered the form in which an epiphany is expressed. The deep sense of the transient nature of all existence present in haiku is rooted in its close associations with the religion of Buddhism and the Japanese concept of Yugen, a term for beauty that implies mystery, profundity, and a trace of sadness referred to as sabi.”( cont. in the next comment )
HOW TO WRITE HAIKU:“Haiku imagery usually revolves around nature and communicates an abstract notion. Since the restricted form of the haiku does not allow room for much terminology, choosing phrases that are packed with verdant description while setting a certain tone is essential. These phrases are often compiled by using kigo, or words that are specific to each season . . . Above all, it is important to be specific and conjure imagery that opens up a full view into the moment you are experiencing and writing about.”MODERN HAIKU:“Although traditional haiku adheres to strict form and meter principles [?] and is bare of poetic adornments, modern haiku has extended the poetry form to fit the life and time of today. Modern haiku is sometimes looked down upon for its lax syllable count, use of metaphors, similes and rhyme, and unnatural images as its central focus. Modern haiku is also often described as the poet's direct experience of the world. However, it is hard to say whether the original masters of haiku would have focused so deeply on maintaining the tradition of the form or the simplicity with which it conveys what it expresses. Instead, it is surely possible that they may have considered the essence of the finished product more important. In this way, haiku has not changed much from the days of medieval Japan. Sarcasm and irony are tools that modern writers enjoy implementing within their haiku. Although haiku enthusiasts irritably disagree on a common definition for modern haiku, the main idea to remember is that the spirit of the haiku is what ultimately survives within the mind and heart of the reader.”Note that form, rules, and more importantly, following the zoka (the creative, untamed spirit of nature, essential to haiku according to Matsuo Basho), are not considered vital in the HSA’s definition of Modern Haiku. This organization, claims Michael Dylan Welch, in his essay, Up With Season Words, in his blog, Graceguts “. . . can take pride in its central role in the history of haiku in English, in its ambiguous definition of modern haiku, the main idea to remember is that the spirit of the haiku is what ultimately survives within the mind, and heart, of the reader.”( cont. in the next comment )
States Professor Gilbert in his paper, The Disjunctive Dragonfly: A Study of Disjunctive Method and Definition in Contemporary English-Languge Haiku: “Given that the Japanese haiku is reductively misinterpreted and the English haiku undefined, the HSA definition seems a figment of culturally projective desire.”HSA: “Haiku enthusiasts irritably disagree on a common definition for modern haiku . . .”Michael Dylan Welch (Up With Season Words): “The Haiku Society of America simply isn’t as relevant, or even as necessary, as it used to be. It needs to change what it does and what it offers, or its membership numbers will stagnate or fall.”Writes Professor Richard Gilbert in his paper, Kigo and Seasonal Reference: Cross-cultural Issues in Anglo-American Haiku: “The central issue for haiku in English may not be so much related to kigo and cultural superficiality, as with a central question Beat writers such as Snyder first articulated in the 1950s: ‘How do we grow our own souls?' That is, how do we grow our own culture?”George Swede in his paper, Towards a Definition of the English Haiku: “Season words are not necessary, although a knowledge of them can be useful, both for the composition of haiku and for the understanding of work written in foreign lands.”Marlene Mountain, from the mountain/backward, section two: “My current definition of haiku is that haiku can no longer be defined.”Which form of haiku is legitimate and endorsed by the Haiku Society of America? The traditional? The modern? Or, does it matter?One can’t ride the fence or a donkey backwards. If this minority of Anglo-Western poets have a distinct poetic genre, they should make a clean break, and give this new distinct genre a different name coupled with distinct rules (guidelines). Or, is this to be a genre without guidelines? The prevailing form most commonly featured in today's journals, e-zines, and workshops is the aforementioned modern haiku: the anything goes, no set meter, object-biased (mono), Imagist-oriented tossed salad that say little compared to the haiku penned in Japan prior to the Anglo-Western colonization of Japan’s universities that began in the late 1870’s.The Merriam Webster Dictionary definition of GENRE:“A category of artistic, musical, or literary composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content.”The sphere of those writing haiku in North America is too unorganized and divided, making a consensus as to what is and isn’t an Anglo-North American haiku, next to impossible.Abigail Friedman could easily be the HSA’s spokesperson with her statement: “Much of the challenge and excitement of writing haiku in the West comes from the fact that there are no commonly agreed-upon rules.”( From: "To kigo or not to kigo?" by Mr. Wilson )June 7 at 4:22am · Like · 1